gt discussion

• How do Daly's and Reuther's feminist theologies compare:

  • SIMILARITIES - both believe that religion is fundamentally patriotic
  • DIFFICULTIES- Reuther wants to reform Christianity, Daly does not, Daly wants to remove Religion
• Can a Male Saviour save women: pt1

  • To Ruether the genderless infinity of God (Yahweh ‘I am who I am’) means God cannot have a gender and so if Jesus is one with God his gender must be irrelevant for salvation. 
  • Jesus had a revolutionary attitude towards women 
  • Fiorenza argues that women living in patriarchal societies take strength from depictions of Jesus engaging with women like he did with men eg the woman at the well
• Can a male saviour save women: pt2

  • They were included in his inner circle and addressed as equals
  • “daughter your faith has made you well, go in peace” Mark 5
  • “There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus”. Galatians 3:28
  • Can a male saviour save? Daly says no, as the whole doctrine of incarnation is a a gender-biased account of how God entered the world, which is used to boost the dominance of men
  • So Daly sees Jesus as a figure of male domination.
  • Daly sees Jesus as portrayed by patriarchy as the scapegoat for the sins originating in Eve
  • It is simply not imaginable, Daly says, that God would take on female flesh.
• Can only women develop spirituality: yes

  • Daly argues Christianity is so patriarchal that men cannot be spiritual beings due to its influence.
  • Women must break away from the propaganda of patriarchy found in fairy tales, popular songs and films, which replicate the godfather, son and Holy Ghost theology that represses women. Then, Daly argues, there is a possibility of an authentic female spirituality.
  • Daly said male liberation is possible, but it is to happen on female terms!
  • She said it is not yet time for a "dialogue" with those who have stolen the power of speech...rather it is time for men to learn at last to listen’. 
  • So men are not entirely excluded but it is time for them to take a back seat and listen to what women have to say.
• Can only women develop spirituality: no

  • Ruether thinks that women bring a new perspective to spirituality that complements the spirituality of men. 
• Can women develop spirituality in Christianity: yes

  • Traditional Christian tradition points to the strong tradition of great female thinkers (St Teresa) and the female notions of divine wisdom in the Bible as a model for female spirituality. 
  • Ruether acknowledges the dissatisfaction with the ‘masculinist Christ and clerical Church but thinks that women bring a new perspective to spirituality that complements the spirituality of men. 
• Can women develop spirituality in Christianity: no

  • Daly argues Christianity is so patriarchal that it is devoid of spirituality
  • Daly believes women must abandon all Christian trappings, be free from patriarchal constraints and reject traditional morality. 
  • Women need to break out from their man-made mind-moulds. 
  • Daly writes about a resurgence of ‘gynergy’. This she argues, is more than simply a replacement of ‘God’ by ‘Goddess’, more than a transsexual operation on the patriarchal God. It involves a profound psychic and social change.
  • She once said she suggested that  'A woman's asking for equality in the church would be comparable to a black person's demanding equality in the Ku Klux Klan.' 
  • Both Daphne Hampson and Mary Daly call women out of the church and see Christianity as irredeemably patriarchal. They are post-Christian feminists
• Can Christianity be changed and or reformed:

  • Daly said it is not yet time for a "dialogue" with those who have stolen the power of speech...rather it is time for men to learn at last to listen'. 
  • Male liberation is possible, but it is to happen on female terms!
  • However she said women do not need Christianity
  • Daly considered, and rejected, the idea that women could restore Christianity through the creation of new forms, for example, feminist liturgies. 
  • She concluded that all attempts were futile because they were still done from within the patriarchal tradition and therefore, still contained aspects of it. Daly returned to a point she made earlier, feminism should not have to look to the past to legitimise itself.
  • She suggests that women should explore instead what she terms the 'Old Religion', the ideas associated with goddesses and witches (an idea she developed further in her 3rd book Gyn/Ecology.
• Can Christianity ever present God in female terms:

  • . He is neither man nor woman.
  • Catechism of the Catholic Church. 
  • “Male monotheism has been so taken for granted that the peculiarity of recognising God through one gender has not been recognised”. – Ruether
  • Numbers 11:12 God is portrayed as a mother and nurse of wondering children
  • Isaiah 42:14 God cries out like a woman in childbirth
  • Isaiah 66:13 She (God) is a comforting mother.
  • Proverbs 8 1-3 “(wisdom) she takes a stand- understanding raises her voice”
  • Ruether links this to St Paul saying “

  we preach Christ crucified Christ the power of God and the ‘wisdom’ of God” in 1 Corinth 1 23-24

  • Southern Baptist Phyliss Trible says that depatriarchy is possible with an emphasis on the female qualities of God.